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Author Topic:  Will Daimonin always free to play?  (Read 13371 times)

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michtoen

« on: 12, January 2006, 18:08:39 »
Because this question and the question "will daimonin become pay-to-play"
are asked very often, i am reposting here an older, a bit extended  
answer i have given in a different thread.

First: Yes, playing in Daimonin will be always be possible "free".

Daimoin will NOT go to p2p in the term "you has to pay to play and when
you don't pay you can't play" .

On the other side - if we ever have 1000 or more people playing (and
with the 3d client the whole dev team think it WILL happen) you don't
want it on our current p2/400 box, or?

Then premium accounts are the ONLY way to have a playable game which
don't runs amok. Its not a question you like it or not. You have to do it
- when you don't do it, running functional server will not work for a bigger
player base. Thats proofed and really nothing special - there are TONS
of text muds out since 15 years who has 200-400 users and pay the
server bills by moderate setted premium accounts. They did in this
way because its the only way to pay constant bills - different to
donations. Same for hundreds of ultima online shards with some hundred
players. If you don't believe me - go that servers and ask the player
base there who has that system since more as a decade.

Moderate means that you get a few special bonus things in the game.
It don't means you can't play for free or don't experience the full
game when you has not a premium account (different to RS or Tibia!).
You also need not that much premium players - just enough for the
bills.

And again: As long we don't have that much players and need a bigger
server we really don't even need to think about premium accounts.
So - normally there is no sense to talk about it ATM. We are small,
we are free - all works fine. Just our main server is hit by some lag
when the university people stress their network - but normally its
somewhat fast evne from oversea.

I always said that btw - every 3-4 month when we change something
like a new website, account system or now the donations, someone
starts the p2p thing - its a kind of hobby of some people i think.
Its a bit the "things have changed! Its the end" behaviour.
And everytime i explain the same over and over. Same about
donations.

The funny thing is that nearly every open source project has donations.
We are hosted by sourceforge. A donation button is there STANDARD part
of the project page.

You can look here about the police from sourceforge:
https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=20244&group_id=1

Here is our project page - with no donations:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/daimonin/

Here is the script we use to save our website database to backup:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/automysqlbackup/

As you can see - they have donations enabled. Its a fine script but
only a script of some lines. Daimonin has some hundred thousends
lines of code and scripts. I had not enabled the donations on the
project page in the past (even people ask to donate) because there was no
need. Now, daimonin has grown and a better webserver and perhaps
some more stuff here and there are needed. So i started to accept
donations. There is also another good thing we can do with donations
i will tell later about because its not 100% cleared.

The really, really bad thing is that this p2p topic was started by some
players who planed to start an own, "better" daimonin server and jumped
on the train of the donation thread to bring in some "honey" for their
own plans. Thats really disgusting and a shame to the hard work of
all the people who donated not money but alot work to this project.

For some reasons these people think daimonin is something like
a private managed program from me where i sit alone over the source
and do lonesome decisions.

The truth is: I started daimonin alone and coded alone on it for over 2
years but its also a fact Daimonin is now maintained by a team of 6-12 people.

Just Gecko, Cher, polyveg, cat666 and all the other will not run around on
the main server or talking alot here in the forum don't mean they have
nothing to say. They manage pretty alone their special parts. From LUA
plugin over the AI to the java editor.

They are just more interested in the project & code itself as in the one main server.
You should never confuse:

- the PROJECT Daimonin which is a public open source project
- and the GAME Daimonin which is the "official" server(s)

This website is the connection between both parts.

Anyway: i know that even after this post players fear they lose
something in terms of playing when ever a premium account system
is needed.

So, here are some deeper thought for players who don't have the money
for premium accounts. They will get alot "non payment" options to get
access to the premium content, like:

- join the dev team and create something for daimoni
- create map sets which are added to daimonin
- create art, models or other content for daimonin
- become a VOL/GM
- host player events or do other community work
- trade ingame premium aco**** tickets for ingame items or money
  from other premium members
- become a respected community member and get voted to premium
  by the community
- do something else important for the project
- some more things i don't have in mind in 1 minute

I hope this clears the things.
vita est proelium

longir

« Reply #1 on: 12, January 2006, 18:58:51 »
I understood it the first time I read about it, and more so this time.  For those that may have trouble:  you will NEVER be forced to pay a single penny, shilling, ruble, lira, or whatever to play.  You can CHOOSE to donate or purchase a premium account or NOT.  You might miss out on a few items but you might be able to trade for them ingame and they won't be totally overpowering.  Donations other than cash and chosen awards of premium accounts will be available.  Premium accounts likely won't come until 3D version is due to be released, but may come sooner.  EVEN if you CHOOSE NOT to get a premium account or donate, you will still be able to get the FULL game experience for FREE.
DM
Dev Team Member
Site Admin

Mostly retired from playing

michtoen

« Reply #2 on: 12, January 2006, 19:01:28 »
To clear it out - premium accounts only depends on the size of the community we will
(perhaps) ever reach even not on the work we put in the game (means which client
we have).
vita est proelium

trepie

« Reply #3 on: 13, January 2006, 01:02:20 »
I too understand where your going man, Its just a shame that some dont (or at least pretend not to). Dont sweat it bro, I'm sure you will work just as hard as always to give us the whole experience and continue to work in the face of adversity from leeches that never intend to put anything but themselves into this game...

Cheers, Trepie :)

Naomeire

« Reply #4 on: 13, January 2006, 01:46:49 »
I have put a great deal of time into both playing and offering whatever meager talents I have toward the goal of improving Daimonin.

Why?

It is simply the greatest player community I have ever encountered.  Most players are helpful, polite, and some are just plain cool.  The game is awsome, and is being developed by a team of outstanding individuals who are willing to contribute much time and effort simply for the joy of creating a great game, and perhaps to sharpen their skills as well.

Michtoen, thank you for having the vision, determination, and generosity to begin this project.  I beleive that because of your insistance on an open source project framework, you have created something that has become far larger than anything you could have ever created by yourself.  Please, ignore the naysayers that would complain about 'not getting the cool stuff/maps' because they don't want to contribute.  (And for any that think I am kissing a$$, yes I am.   :P )

To all the rest of the dev team, Gecko, Cher, polyveg, cat, Finlos, Myst, Red, and any others that I have failed to mention, thank you also, for having the wisdom to share Michtoen's vision.  You are all doing a wonderful job, creating code and graphics, and you have advanced the game and the project to the next level.

To all those who only want to play, without ever contributing anything, enjoy!  Enjoy playing an awsome game created by outstanding people.  But, if at any time, you decide that you are not enjoying the Daimonin experience, please, rather than whine and complain about what you don't like about the game, instead, attempt to fix what you don't like and offer your time and efforts to the overall project.  As MT has stated, there are many ways to contribute to the project without forking over cash.  (And we could use all the contructive aid that we can get.)

Thanks!
Naomeire
Battle Mage, Artist, Mapwiz

Lothien

« Reply #5 on: 20, January 2006, 21:26:53 »
Hey fellows... Lothian is back from the mists. :)

I would like to state that I AM NOT one of those who were rumourmongering about p2p, nor do i play to start a new server (but i plan to play on both, if another arises, because i like daimonin that much). When i started the "will daimonin become p2p?" thread, i was intent on ending the rumours and get the facts exposed, so no one could go saying whatever pleases his (or her) agenda. In short, i was trying to help...

I think i was successful (as my thread is being cited here and there, as a clarification).

Hugs,
Lothian.
"...unsmiling, he walked away silently. They watched in silence as walked down the valley, until he vanished among the trees. Hate and respect mingled in the air over the hill. Inside his jester soul, he laughed all the way."
(the tales of D

dualityshift

« Reply #6 on: 21, January 2006, 00:50:21 »
Change is never easy.  At least the worthwhile change isn't.  I'm brand new to the game, and MMORPGs and for the most part, the pay to play sites aren't always as good as some free ones out there.  I think if ou've got a solid client and an even better story for the game, you've got something people would want to pay to play.

IMHO there are three things that could be done to offset costs.
1. Premium Accounts -I'm a fence sitter on this one.
2. Expand the buyable items catalogue. - Pay to enhance your play is good.
3. Run two (2) games, one free, and one p2p, with enhancements galore.

So, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.  This is my first post, afterall.

RNicholas

« Reply #7 on: 27, January 2006, 16:36:11 »
Just a suggestion.  How about charging real money for the bigger apartments that can store the most stuff?

Ganbree

« Reply #8 on: 10, February 2006, 10:40:58 »
I think people should join a kinda bill list so the expence is shared amongst people, I think it would work but then there r few players that like to pay for a free game.

Or to have a "Premium" account you need to be a member of that list and payed an initial donation.
 :idea:
This makes a model that Daimonin isnt making profits so kinda stays a free game ~(shakey)
but i definatly think daimonin should not become like runescapewho doesnt update the free world exept to make sure member items dont cause errors on a free world.
EDIT:
My idea roxs :!:

Unislash

« Reply #9 on: 10, February 2006, 19:05:34 »
Don't worry. I, and many other developers, have played Runescape. Let me tell you, we don't like what we see when we go on there. The free player world will be updated with maps and quests, as long as i am on the dev team. But anyways, even free players will have chances to play on the Premium area.

Cheers,
Unislash
Forum Admin/Mapmaker

lulolu

« Reply #10 on: 10, March 2006, 21:38:29 »
This is not right!!!! I finally made it to level five and I have to lose all that hard work for an upgrade??? This idea is stupididity!!!!! I mean, all the level 110 will either stop playing the game or hate you!!!!! LIKE I MEAN THIS IS A DUMB IDEA OF A CHARECTER SWIPE!!!! Can't you put all the charecters on a security server and upgrade the rest of the servers? Or at least add an upgraded version of diamonin on a different server? Because your gonna lose alot of players!

longir

« Reply #11 on: 11, March 2006, 00:53:03 »
I'm one of those 110's you mention.  I look forward to the char wipe at 1.0 even though it's probably a year or more away.  The next release, Beta 4 will NOT involve a char wipe.  I enjoy the community we've been building and developing my char.  In 1.0 I will have all new opportunities that I don't have now and won't have even in B4.  This is just like any other Beta....when the release version comes out, all Beta chars are wiped.  That's pretty much standard to be sure there's nothing coming from earlier times to cause trouble....whether it's specific items that won't be available any more or something that would totally overpower the game.  Plus it lets everyone start out on the same footing.
DM
Dev Team Member
Site Admin

Mostly retired from playing

lulolu

« Reply #12 on: 11, March 2006, 16:41:48 »
yea but when is beta four coming? Plz respond.

lulolu

« Reply #13 on: 11, March 2006, 16:45:22 »
Will the groups start in beta 4 or the 1.0?

Ratix

« Reply #14 on: 11, March 2006, 19:32:13 »
MT I have a question, I always wondered this, why did you start Daimonin, and why do you spend so much of your precious time on it? You do not plan to make Daimonin a p2p game, I'm just wondering what motivates you so much...

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