Its copper not cents.

Sheesh...noobs these days.

Not aware of europeans masterplan, are you?
We'll assimilate everyone and everything, resistance is futile!  :twisted:

Back on topic again (want to assimilate some hidden information):
Are there any parts (or probably all of) Crossfire's skill system remaining in Daimonin?
Or what are your plans on this topic?

unislash, to get a basic idea of Dungeon Crawl's skill concept, all you need to read is the introduction on
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl/skills.html
It's not that much and I surely can't explain it better.
The other stuff below is just some more details and tables of the skill aptitudes.
Actually not really needed to get a first glance...

Click, enjoy and make of it what you want!  ;-)
Rubinstein

Thanks for the tip, Cher.
I'm always panicing when this happen, but (fortunately) this doesn't happen often to me. Thus I'm
not used to that situation, should have thought of it by my own, though...

On the old forum, that little trick didn't work. Omg did i loose so much text at first,
it would always piss me off a ton (especially when i would write a 4-6 paragraph post...).

Something is still wrong, though. Dunno whether it's the forum itself or my new e-mail client
(Gmail which is still beta). Sometimes, when I directly jump into the forum via e-mail notification link,
I'm not automatically logged in. Automatic login works when I use the usual link to this forum.
EDIT: It seems to be something wrong with the forum!
Meanwhile automatic login also (randomly) didn't work when engaged from bookmarks.

Anyways, on topic .
First i'd like to point out that from someone (me) who has never played the game... that experience
description is -really- confusing... i'm sure that if i played, it wouldn't be, but from the text i am
immediately lost . This is why i would like you to explain it for us (uh, me i guess)

Ok, I try to explain as short as possible, before I'm getting logged out again. ;-)
But obviously I can't replace your missing game experience - and you're right, a great part
of that concept probably only makes sense in the context of the game itself.

Level and XP-points are same as in most similar games, nothing special. With every kill though,
you also earn additional skill points which are then used up by certain actions. As long as
you don't have any free skill points, you can't increase any of your skills. That happens e.g. when
the monsters you are killing are too low level (compared to your own level).
The higher your level in a certain skill, the more 'expensive' (as in 'more free skill points needed')
to advance further in that skill.
Think of 'anti-munchkin' mechanism, which actually works very well.  :twisted:
Basically you already control your skill advancements by the certain actions you do: If you're using
e.g. your dagger a lot, then your skill in short swords will increase. Or using ice-bolt a lot then your
ice-magic will increase. This process happens independent of monster kills, it's just by 'doing'.
By killing monsters you 'only' gain levels (which is still important of course for stat increasing) and
free skill points.

Now there are also a lot of defensive skills like stealth, armour, shield which increase by time or
when you're just running around w/o killing something.
If you don't want that, you can 'mute' these (any) skills which then reduces the possible flow of
skillpoints into that certain skills to 1/4. You can 'toggle' skills at any time and as often you like.

I'm not sure what exactly you don't understand (feel free to ask me again if I missed something), it's
probably the concept of the so called 'skill aptitudes'. Those are race dependant, think of 'talents'.
A skill aptitude 100 e.g. means 'average', everything lower than 100 is better, higher is worse.
A skill aptitude of 50 for instance means as twice as normal chance of skill points floating into that
certain skill, 200 means the usual probability devided by 2.

Skill aptitudes can not be changed once you've decided to play a certain race. As a result a race
with low skill aptitudes in a certain skill has good chances to max this skill out (up to level 27) in
the end. OTOH this system is  very well balanced, in that if you spread your skill points into too
many different skills, you will get to nowhere in the end, cause none of your 'talents' will be
excellent, which is needed for a few skills to win the game. But whether it will be an extremely
sneaky character, a highly advanced spellcaster or a brute and strong slayer it's all up to you
and, not at last, a result of your race decision. But it's virtually impossible to develope a sneaky,
insanely (physically) strong *and* proficient spellcaster...  :roll:

On the long run these skill aptitudes are much more important for the difference between
the races than the initial skills and stats, cause they determine how fast your char will advance his
skills during the *whole* game. Crawl has also many classes though, which determine your char's
initial stats and skills (and their values), but, as you (hopefully) now understand, they are
secondary compared to the race concept, cause they are mainly important in the beginning.

Still there? ;-)

I doubt my explanation is better than the original one, so feel free to ask me what you want, but try
to ask a little more specific, if possible...

Regards,
Rubinstein

This XP system seems very interesting... im not a director of this project, so i have no choice
to make about that but i encourage who can to consider seriously this system (the current one is ok but still rough).

It's all about Crawl's skill system btw, the XP system of Crawl works like this:
everytime after reaching 3 XP-levels (at 3, 6, 9, 12 and so on) you can freely allocate one point
to one of the main stats STR, INT or DEX. Certain races also gain additional random stat boosts
at certain XP-levels.

I did not expect (nor do I intend) ever seing this system in Daimonin, at least not in a 1:1 translation.
It just was meant as a suggestion for future plans since currently there isn't much yet in the
department of skills and races.

There is a particular point that still confuse me a little: this idea of "toggling flow of skillpoint", is there
an exprience manager panel? I think it would be too technical...

Yes and no. It's simple like that: there is a page in Crawl you reach with the 'm'-key which shows
all your current skills. These can be very few in the beginning (depending on your choosen
race/class combo) but you can even 'open' new skills during the game just by extensive doing.
Every skill has a letter in front which you can use to 'uncheck' (what I called 'mute') a certain skill.
It's just a matter of optimizing and freedom for the player, but of course you don't have to.
All skills are 'open' by default. When I say "you don't have too" then because I doubt Daimonin will
ever be as hard as Crawl and so there probably will be no need for such kind of optimization.
Depends on how and what parts of this system would be overtaken (if at all) the skill toggling
probably would be pointless. Take the 'skill toggling' as something not vital rather than fine-tuning.

Anyway, this is not the 'heart' of this system rather than the race dependend skill aptitudes which
makes every race a very unique game experience.

You probably understand this system better when you understand the 'why':
The whole system is supposed to provide both maximum freedom for player choices *and*
on the same time encouraging (but not forcing!) the player towards roleplaying.
And this is something I really would like to see in Daimonin's future. How it will be done, whether
parts or all of Crawl's skill system will be used or something entirely else is secondary to me.

When you kill a mob you gain a bit in that free skill points. Then, when you have enough, you gain a level
(much like we have now , well, exactly). This is how you gain in attack skills.

Yes, almost. Xp-points and skill-points are working independant from each other. When you kill
a mob, you gain both XP-points *and* skill points. The former works in the common way, that
is your char's overal level and stat gain, which seems the only difference to Daimonin, since as
 far as I can see (that's not all too far, I know) there is no stat gain in Daimonin, yet.

For defensive skills (armor, shield, stealth as you said) you get skill points just by wearing them and running around.

Yes, but keep in mind, I was simplifying a lot. So whether you gain armour or dodging skill depends
e.g. on whether you're wearing light or heavy armour.

Now, here is my question concerning these last two things: The "Free Skill Points" are all in one big pool which
all of your skills drink out of, right?

Exactly.

Or maybe they are all in little pools, each pool for one skill.

No. Skill points are all collected in one 'pool' (if you want so) and are neutral until allocated.
Once allocated to skills they never can flow back into that pool, though. And when this pool is
empty, you have to earn now skill points (by killing mobs) if you further want to improve any of
your skills.

Anyways, then the racial system is that when you start out, each skill aptitude  is at 100 (at the VERY beginning, before you pick a race).

No, you don't start as a 'neutral' character. Race and class decision is the very first action before
starting any new game, there is no 'before'. Only humans have an overall skill aptitude of 100, thus
unless you start a human race char, the skill aptitudes are all different and can never more be
changed during the game.

Higher is worse, lower is better.

Yes.

Then, depending on how low/high the skill points that you get in this skill are higher/lower.

I guess you got it, assuming you meant "depending on how low/high the appropriate *skill
aptitude* is". I'll give a last example: Imaging you're bashing an opponent with your long sword
and your current char has a skill aptitude of 100 for the skill 'long swords'. Then every 10 hits
(just for the example, the number isn't true) there is a chance for drawing a portion of your free
(unallocated) skill points into the 'long sword'-skill. This "every 10 hits" would transpose to "every
5 hits" if you would play a race with a skill aptitude of 50 in long swords. Again, very much
simplified, there are still random effects and other factors influencing this process in Crawl.

Am i getting it?

I'm almost sure you did now. ;-)

Best,
Rubinstein