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Author Topic:  Arrows (yes, again)  (Read 1306 times)

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ThePlaneskeeper

« on: 07, April 2006, 11:14:53 »
okay so heres my next brilliant idea- when someone is shot with an arrow (provided it doesn't miss) those arrows tend to get stuck in the person, right?

So instead of arrows piling on the ground where an arrow theif may get them, let them pile on the mob that is being attacked with them, so when the mob dies, they are in the mob corpse. IDed and everything, of course, but there, and not on the ground.

Just made sense to me, tell me what you think

dwarrior

« Reply #1 on: 07, April 2006, 15:14:23 »
I actually like that idea; as I am forever picking up bolts off the floor. It would make archery slightly more appealing because you could chase a mob and easily regain your arrows. Nice idea.
Dwarrior may have returned while you weren't looking.

Bobthehobo

« Reply #2 on: 07, April 2006, 16:01:48 »
Maybe too appealing, I always thought that having to pick up ammo was a con of archery. If you didn't have to archery is just way too powerful, simply because you can stand next to a mob and pump them full of bolts while slashing them in the head. Why would you use just slash?

Lothien

« Reply #3 on: 07, April 2006, 20:44:51 »
I like the idea, but it makes archery really even more appealing. Besides, the idea of having the arrows pile inside the corpse-bounty-container is very good and simple. The only question here is the question of balance.
(in the other hand, you'll have to get your missed arrows in the same way... and most of the lost arrows are the ones you miss, not the ones that hit true the target...) ;)
"...unsmiling, he walked away silently. They watched in silence as walked down the valley, until he vanished among the trees. Hate and respect mingled in the air over the hill. Inside his jester soul, he laughed all the way."
(the tales of D

Ratix

« Reply #4 on: 07, April 2006, 23:32:43 »
I think you mean the arrows going into the mobs bounty? And yes that would be nice... but the con of having the pick them up is still there when you miss the mob so its still "balanced".

I had a different idea for this same problem - You could get your ammo "inscribed" which is the same as getting them ego-binded, except it costs in-game money. No one can pick up the bolts you shoot, they say "iron bolts of Ratix" so they stay unstolen, and it also helps if you die in battle and need to run back and get them. The incription would ware off after 15 minutes or so of either the player not holding the arrows or in apt, this way you could still sell them to other players and they would become unbound.

Unislash

« Reply #5 on: 08, April 2006, 00:51:33 »
Taking another leaf out of the book of diablo, wyvern, and a few other games i've played, i want to look at the quiver of returning. The way i look at it, there are 3 or 4 ways to do it. First, you have your quiver of returning, then you have your quiver of magical ammo. Now, for the 4 ways:

Quiver of Returning:
-Arrows simply return to the quiver whenever and wherever they fall
-Arrows return to the quiver if they miss
-Arrows return to the quiver whenever and wherever they fall with some mana penalty
-Arrows return to the quiver if they miss with some mana penalty
Quiver of Magical Ammo:
-The quiver simply gives you an unlimited amount of ammo at no cost
-The quiver has a set amount of shots at no cost
-The quiver gives you an unlimited amount of ammo with some mana penalty for every shot
-The quiver has a set amount of shots with some mana penalty for every shot

Okay, so there are more than 3 or 4 ways :). I think that these are the main ones... i think. Discuss.

Cheers,
Unislash
Forum Admin/Mapmaker

smacky

« Reply #6 on: 08, April 2006, 01:05:36 »
IMO:

Quiver of Returning -- ammo returns to  quiver if it misses.

This seems better 'logically' and more balanced than having even ammo that hits return and also contrasts this quiver nicely with the next.

EDIT: Also, if ammo returned regardless of whether it hit or missed, you just stick one arrow +2 of acc in there and you have a limitless supply = too unbalancing.

Quiver of Magic Ammo -- The quiver gives you unlimited ammo with some mana penalty every shot.

This could be a very powerful item, hence the mana cost to balance it (also 'logically' it makes sense to make it mana-reliant as the 'ammo' is quite spell-like). It'd be nice if a 'normal' quiver of magic ammo produced the equivalent of normal ammo only, but you could also find quivers +1, +2, of acc (and therefore of inacc), etc. Suitably (read very) rare of course.

MarcK

« Reply #7 on: 08, April 2006, 01:27:42 »
The Quiver of Returning sounds like a very nice item to add.
The Quiver of Magic Ammo -- unless the ammo disappears after being fired (whether it hits or misses) -- seems a little too high-powered.

If you could pick up the ammo after the latter quiver fires it, you'd have a source of infinite wealth.

Unless, of course, all the ammo thus produced were one-drop items.  :D
Volunteer Drow Annihilator (not annihilator of Volunteer Drows ;))

Shroud

« Reply #8 on: 08, April 2006, 02:55:59 »
One point, if arrows go into bounty it means if someone else gets bounty then I lose my arrows...

also if ammo always returns it'd mean you'd only ever need 1 arrow unless some didn't return or something else was there to prevent that
Doesn't matter, you'd die anyway. ;D Shroud's a hacker. After many hours of deep thought I have came to that conclusion.

ThePlaneskeeper

« Reply #9 on: 08, April 2006, 04:42:25 »
okay, my opinions are- Quiver of arrow returning would be a great idea if the arrows returned after a 15 second delay, plus 1 second per 10 squares of distance away, and of course any arrows left in a dungeon by themselves lose thier magical touch... they have a delay so 1 arrow can't be cycled, and it naturally takes time for the magic to take effect and the arrow to fly back into the quiver.

I don't think this should cost mana, as it is a naturally imbued enchantment of the quiver to bind itself to the "property of the quiver"
It's possesive, and you can't stop that :p


Quiver of magical ammo would be nice, especially of flaming arrows, frostbite arrows, poison tipped.... you get the idea here, additionally even rarer with a +1... and next to impossible with a +2 (they would be simmilar to arrows of accuracy, but with the rareity of say flaming arrows closer to that of arrows +2 as per current, and flaming arrows +1 closer to arrows +1 of acc, and flaming arrows +2 rarer than +2 of acc... or something...)

Additionally, these arrows would have to disappear upon contact, like a potion or poisoned food, or whatever else...
And this would HAVE to cost mana... maybe 2-4 mana per shot depending on quality? (eg. flaming = 2 mana flaming +1 = 3 mana flaming +2 = 4 mana)

This could also be made into items as well to put in a normal quiver, but then you'd have to pick them up, which is why i think BOTH ideas should be put in the game, because it makes an excellent addition to the magic-void ranger, OR the spellcaster who can't be bothered to do those teadious things like picking up arrows from slimy bodies, or be having arrows flying back scaring the living daylights out of him, causing a spell to miscast : /

It happenes to everyone eventually.

Anyways, just my ideas, and let me recap

All 3 should be in game
-quiver of delayed returning (perhaps have a rare on of quick returning that only takes 7 seconds?)
-Quiver of infinite magical arrows of {insert type} with a mana cost and arrows are one-use
-Magical arrows of {type} adds some elemental effects, poison effects, or other effects (lets raise an army of undead to command using black arrows!!!  MWAHAHAHAHAHA... errr... right... so....)

thats it for my opinions, and if its a go i'll make the images for alllll the various types, in fact, i'd really like to see what i could do with "lightening arrows", especially if i made a new  in-flight images.  Flame arrows might be neat to make fly too...

Unislash

« Reply #10 on: 08, April 2006, 05:22:14 »
My opinion is that of course quivers of returning would have a delay on it, the 15 second sounds fine alone--the +1 per 10 squares sounds cool but is just too complicated i believe.

My opinion on the quiver of magical arrows is that of course they wouldn't create arrows for re-use. They would act as an infinate ammo source leeching your mana every shot and are simply an arrow of magic and are not real material... i think we actually have a magic material flag in daimonin :P.

My opinion on the quiver of magical arrows of {type/bonus} is that they shouldn't all be of that type, but of a chance depending on qua and con.

Lots of things are possible with quivers :).

On the arrows sticking in the corpse: It sure is more realistic, but it does serve as a disadvantage to the archer whichever way you look at it. Disadvantage over reality? Again, i bet we have different opinions around the table.

ThePlaneskeeper: That is a lot to do, you know. I also know that you will probably have enough time to easily do them :P. Will you also make the flight images?

Cheers,
Unislash
Forum Admin/Mapmaker

Sherock

« Reply #11 on: 08, April 2006, 05:55:47 »
Quivers of returning? get real, stop being lazy this is fundamentally the most realistic it can be as is.  Quiver of magical missles though eating mana to fire would however be a nice addition.  BUT then what is the difference between this and the spell? Magic missles = magic bullet.  what is the point unless it works with dex for a bonus  Anotherwords a specialized magic that is modified by both dex(accuracy) and Power (damage) ?

my thoughts anyhow...She Who Rocks

Unislash

« Reply #12 on: 08, April 2006, 07:37:37 »
Well, the quiver of magical missiles is really just a quiver that spits out some magical missiles and requires archery to fire them. They are not spells. If you really want to get down to it... What is a melee attack? It is something that does damage. What is a missile attack? It is something that does damage. What is a spell attack? It is something that does damage. The difference? Range, speed, accuracy, and power.

Cheers,
Unislash
Forum Admin/Mapmaker

Lothien

« Reply #13 on: 08, April 2006, 09:08:20 »
Quote from: "Shroud"
One point, if arrows go into bounty it means if someone else gets bounty then I lose my arrows...

also if ammo always returns it'd mean you'd only ever need 1 arrow unless some didn't return or something else was there to prevent that


you've got two good points here (although one of them is not originaly yours, but your post says it alll) :)

I start thinking that the arrow system is PERFECT the way it is :)
"...unsmiling, he walked away silently. They watched in silence as walked down the valley, until he vanished among the trees. Hate and respect mingled in the air over the hill. Inside his jester soul, he laughed all the way."
(the tales of D

Gecko

« Reply #14 on: 08, April 2006, 12:44:07 »
The very first public betas had arrows that stuck to the enemies. This was removed when named bounties was introduced since the two concepts didn't work very well together.
Daimonin developer, admin and moderator.

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